I Now Pronounce You


I WILL Make You Dinner, But We Are NOT Listening to Tori Amos

Posted in Uncategorized by inowpronounceyou on May 31, 2007

I had a great email exchange with a bad ass New Yorker last night that got me thinking about some things. Most notably the whole Alpha/Beta-Notch v. Relationship saga. Once it was in my brain I couldn’t really stop mulling it over. I don’t think all of this is as linear as I’d like it to be, but so what? Make of this mess what you will.

The first thing to understand before I dive in to this is that this guy is a friend, and I do not have any issue whatsoever with what he says or the game that he preaches. In fact, I think he’s dead on accurate with a great deal of his beliefs. He has an understanding of this ever changing Battle of the Sexes world we live in, and I think most people could learn a thing or two (or ten) from him. I mention this only because it seems like people want to divide the world into two camps and those two camps must be in complete conflict over every aspect of the dating world. Those camps are; Notch Collectors v. Monogamists.

Now, I reject this notion. Completely. I also reject that when I was home with my exFiance on a Saturday night making dinner and getting ready to watch 2 netflix (one chick flick and one horror movie) that I was any less of an Alpha than the Alpha at the bar who was wondering if the hottie he was chatting up wanted her eggs scrambled or fertlized in the morning. (All props to 200 Cigarettes, I know)

Here’s the way I see the world.

I dig Monogamy. I prefer it. I don’t need OR want to collect notches, but I’m pretty certain that I’ll be adding more as my life progresses. Having said that, I am not desperate enough to commit to any woman after a few dates and say that we are “exclusive” and I’m damn sure not wife hunting. I don’t bend to the will of just anyone, but as she earns a bigger place in my life I will compromise. Not sell out. Not cease being me. Compromise.

The idea of the Alpha/Beta male is something with which I do, indeed, agree. I have seen many, many men lead around by their noses because a woman was willing to sleep with him…once she did, that was it. Different clothes (not always bad, admittedly) different “likes”, different friends, and just a different person entirely…yeah, seen it. I have also, however, seen just as many women who starve themselves, dumb themselves down, and perform sex acts they don’t really want to do, all in the interest of hooking and keeping a man.

Call me crazy, but I see very little difference between those two things.

Honestly, I don’t want any part of either. I won’t be that guy (and you won’t like trying to make me in to him) and I will NOT date that girl. I wouldn’t say that I never have because that would be a lie. There was a time when INPY was…well…very different. I had to kill that INPY and replace him with this one because living the life he wanted was exhausting and empty. Getting engaged was NOT that point at which it changed. It was long, long before that. Getting engaged was the RESULT of that change.

And, if you think that getting ditched has made me regret those changes or made me wish I could go back and not do it?

You clearly don’t get it.

As for the Guru of Game and why I agree with him?

Look, men and women are different. We need different things. The game and why it works (and it does work, let there be NO doubt about it) is all about tapping in to those needs and differences to achieve a desired result.

However, those some principals can also be applied to have a happy, healthy relationship. They can. “Paying attention to certain details and ignoring others to get a blow job” can and does translate to “remember when your GF says something to you that is important and comment on it later and don’t get caught up in all of the emotional highs and lows will get you all the freedom to be yourself in your relationship.”

Word.

If you want to have a one night stand? Pretend to listen to her. Make her think she’s got your attention, but let her know that you could walk.

If you want to be happy and supported in your realtionships, listen to her…do NOT pretend. Listen to her. But don’t be at her beck and call and act like you’d die paint her toenails. Don’t be a slave. Be a MAN, but be a man that remembers and cares about the details of her life. I mean, if you can’t do that…what the fuck are you doing with her anyhow?

Now me? I’m a romantic. I fucking hate to admit this sometimes because it inevitably leads to that look…you know that look. That “you’re a Beta” look…and that is some seriously absurd shit. But c’mon, you know it. Everyone “knows” it. But INPY is hear to tell you that it just ain’t true. Just because I’m a romantic does NOT mean that I’m thinking about our future on our first date. HELL NO. You’ve got to earn the romantic in me. Earn it. It’s NOT just given to anyone and it’s not given away lightly. And just because I’m a romantic that digs monogamy doesn’t mean that the idea of adding nothces that I know aren’t anything more than notches is out of the question. Get serious. We all do it. This is what I mean by rejecting the idea that you’re completely one or the other. That’s lame and weak. And really? It’s the tactic of scared people and scared people to me are Betas.

Then again, that’s just me talkin’.

But the deal is like this for me; if you make me feel like I’m the only man in the world I’m going to make you feel like you’re the only woman in the world. It doesn’t mean we have each other on a chain (well, sometimes, but that’s different) but it does mean that we meet each other’s needs. I’m a man, I need space. I need a life outside of “us”. And I need you to not make me fight you tooth and nail for that and to allow me to be a man. And be feminine for me, not a pushover, but feminine. You want to fight me on every detail to earn my respect because you’re my equal and that’s how it’s done? You just lost it. I do that with the guys. With you I want it to be different. I don’t want a pushover, but I damn sure am not interested in dating the guy that wanted my starting slot on the basketball team. I want a woman. A strong woman who knows how to work with me.

Your’e a woman, you need to know that the space I need has nothing to do with you. And you need to know that you’re being heard. And respected, and cherished. Not treated like a princess and kid gloved, but that I want you more than I want an undefined “something else” out there. I can’t be a girlfriend, but i can be a confidant. It’s up to ME to be that, and to do it well. If I get all…well…beta, and try and be Mr. Sensitive Pony Tail Man (Thank you Singles) for you, you are going to see that I’m not being masculine, that I’m feminizing myself for you and that’s going to bleed in to all kinds of things. But if I can listen to you, be strong for you when you need it AND let my defense down and be well, gentle, for you when you need it? You’re going to feel like you’re in…like you’re not always banging your head against my walls. And that’s going to let you feel safe enough to be feminine without feeling like you’re compromising that strength that you and your mother and your grandmother worked for.

And I dig that strong part of you. Just like I dig that soft side of you.

I think I’m probably rambling now…I mean, look, don’t listen to me. CLEARLY I am not the man to take relationship advice on…I mean, Hookers and Liars and Cold Feet, OH MY! But I hate seeing this Battle of the Sexes go from a game show to an armed conflict. I don’t have answers, I just have this big mess of ideas.

But if we can be what I’m doing a crappy job of explaining for each other, why the hell wouldn’t I make dinners and send flowers? Why wouldn’t I rent a B&B in the middle of nowhere for us to drink wine and curl up by a fireplace and let you just unload all of your stress? Or buy you the dress that I want you to wear to dinner and that movie you want to see?

If we do that, why would you care if I went out with the boys? Why wouldn’t you be in to being tied up and talking dirty and things you would think are “slutty” but with me are OK? Why wouldn’t you come to a Yankees game and do shots with me at the Yankees bar across the street and eat hot dogs?

I think we’re overcomplicating all of this. Then again, like I said; I really am the wrong guy to take advice from on this whole thing.

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25 Responses to 'I WILL Make You Dinner, But We Are NOT Listening to Tori Amos'

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  1. Justin said,

    Bullshit. You are just the guy from whom to take advice. Relationship advice.

    I’m so glad I stopped by to read this post. I’m on alert, and we expect to leave in about an hour or so, so I thought… I’ll catch up on INPY. So glad. You’ve put me in a perfect mood for the coming 10 hours.

    Nonetheless.

    You put to words exactly what I’ve been thinking since I first came across you and Roosh and LMNtal and countless others. Especially Roosh, of course. Like you, I agree that Roosh has hit the nail on the head in myriad ways, on myriad topics. However — and that’s a BIG however — his wisdom and acumen are generally restricted to the pursuit of one goal (the notch, natch.) And to one type of guy: the guy that wants the notch. His audience, perhaps, could be thus divided:

    — women
    — alphas looking to sharpen the game
    — betas looking to transform
    — the somewhere-in-between (and perhaps ambivalent) who appreciate his acuity and humor and brilliant writing skills but nonetheless know who they are, and are fine with being just that (themselves)

    You, old friend, put perfectly to words what the rest of us want. A bit of the middle. Rather, a lot of the middle. You, me and countless others — we’re not betas for wanting (and striving for) a monogamous, meaningful relationship to the exclusion of other notch-opportunities. We’re just not the “type.” For us, it’s a case of “more.” We want the trust and intimacy that only a committed relationship can provide. Even more than the notch. Can’t change who we are, any more than we could change who Roosh is. (Though, I digress: I suspect that even Roosh will one day long for that chair-that’s-only-his and a wife that cooks zereshk polo whenever he asks for it.)

    Mid-July, I’m hoping. Then we share that beer. And laugh. A lot. Stay safe and sane and happy, INPY.

  2. Irina said,

    1) awesome post

    2) relationships are really about having that best friend. you should get the companionship, support, and fun you get from your friends that you do from your lover. AND you get sex and commitment. that person who is The One should be the person that you can come home to from a night with the boys and feel happy. she doesn’t hold you down because she has nothing to worry about. We put too many expectations on things. we look to our parents and see how their marriage was, and that’s no longer the norm. we look at our friends’ relationships, but we can’t fit a cookie cutter, we’re all different people.

    3) what i don’t get about notch hunters IS the lying. It shows so much weakness in character. women will still sleep with you even if you make it clear you’re not in it for the long term. if a guy sleeps with you and he decided to bail and never contact you again or acts really awkward the next time you run into him, he’s being emotional. those emotions are written all over his face and body and it’s just pathetic. if he wasn’t so uncomfortable he’d come up to the girl and joke about the sex they had and treat her like he would anyone else. but he doesn’t because he’s affected by it, no matter what he wants to make himself believe.


  3. Justin’s comment said a lot of what I intended to, and he’s right on point – as is most everything you put out there. His first sentence sums it up: I’d trust your opinion when I had a “relationship” question over the idealistic crap girls tend to offer or the “notch-building” focus of a Roosh (who, I concur, is worth reading), though I might well go to the latter for a question in that area.

    But on the whole, your thoughts echo my own, and people are always telling me I give good advice (really, I think I just listen better than they’re used to) despite the internal hypocrisy I’m feeling because I can’t maintain my own shit. Keep doin how you do, sir, and one day it’ll all make sense (word to Common, ha)

  4. Original Me said,

    Countless women are probably scrambling for their Yankees cap and peep-toe stilettos right about now…cuz that was charming.

  5. Lisa said,

    Excellent post. I like this one. I agree with you – it is about what you’re looking for, and who and how you want to be with another person. And, I think, a lot of it depends on how good you feel with yourself, and being able to have faith that someone you think is amazing will still think you’re amazing when you’re just being YOU rather than trying to be the person you think they want you to be. That was all kinds of convoluted. Not sure if it made sense.

  6. Jo said,

    Finally someone said it! I’ve been inwardly defending my monogamous boyfriend this entire time and getting pissed off for people claiming that just because he’s at home watching netflix with me and not getting notches means he’s a Beta. Thank you!

    Excellent post.


  7. Justin; thanks, J. Really. And that first round is on me. Really looking forward to it. Be safe, get here.

    Irina; I agree with everything you have are saying here. Every word. Thank you for the compliment and truly, I don’t get the lying either.

    Brooklyn; I don’t know if I’d want to be sought out for advice. But it’s nice to know that this clicked with you. Then again, maybe it’s the old “those that can, do and those that can’t, teach” idea?

    OM; I thinkthat’s a great look. πŸ™‚

    Lisa; it’s easy to get that “convoluted” feel when this subject comes up. It’s hard to keep it alllinear bc, well, there’s just so many factors. But I get what you’re sayin’, and i think you’re right on.

    Jo; Bergle ain’t Beta. No Beta is hookin’ a girl like you.


  8. Haha … hadn’t thought about the “… those who can’t, teach” adage. Cliches become cliches for a reason, right?

  9. jess said,

    I think I asked you once why there’s this idea that there are strict alpha and betas because it just depends on what time and circumstances you’re talking about — everyone, male and female, switches between being an alpha and a beta in a relationship that involves vulnerability.

    The latter is where it breaks down for me. Very few people are willing to be truly vulnerable. And of course, it doesn’t mean the other person won’t throw that back at the vulnerable person. I guess you just have to keep trying to find what’s right for you.

    Jo is a hottie πŸ™‚ I *wish* she’d invite me for a Netflix couch evening πŸ™‚

  10. John said,

    So, maybe it’s because I’m the naive 22, almost 23 year old, but I don’t quite understand the discussion here. I read Roosh because well, I find him amazing. I for one wouldn’t take his advice, but I also am not looking for notches or a long-term thing at this very moment. I think that is why this post resonates. Even though I do not quite understand the argument, I think I agree. (Although, I believe I fit firmly into Justin’s “in between group.”) Definitely an interesting read! (I also think I topped Lisa’s convolutedness, and that’s not even a word.)


  11. Jess; vulnerability, in my book, is earned. Good luck getting on Jo’s couch!

    John; I’m not sure if that’s a word, but you make sense anyhow. Sort of.

  12. EDW said,

    Ah, Singles. How I love you. (The movie, I mean.) I could quote lines all night.

    On the post – maybe it’s because I’m too entrenched in relationship-land, but are there really women who don’t want their guys to go out with their friends? Really? Why is God’s name would you want your SO around all the time? Every human needs time alone – male, female, whatever. Everyone needs time with friends. I know some guys who don’t want their wives to go out with their girlfriends, who get annoyed and whine about it, but I have no female friends who complain about boys’ nights. None, And I would call those women crazy and insane to their faces. (Now, maybe that’s why I don’t have any friends like that, eh?)

    I felt like you could have been writing a lot of this post from my perspective, and I am most definitely a woman. Just replace Tori Amos with Live in the title.

  13. roissy said,

    or you could have the best of both worlds — multiple long term relationships with the occasional short term fling thrown in.
    monogamy as an abiding principle sucks. it’s a monopoly over my sexual desire.

  14. roissy said,

    ps: i say this as a guy who likes tori amos. saw her play in jersey back in the day when she was a full-lipped young thing twirling spastically on her piano bench.

  15. LMNt said,

    You know I had to chime in on this one.

    Excellent post, my friend. I couldn’t agree more…

    ..but I’m with Roissy on Tori Amos.

  16. CR said,

    Totally agree with everything you wrote!! I’m relieved to confirm that in past relationships I’ve been in fact a good girlfriend — not only boys night out never bothered me, but sometimes I had to insist on it (“all your friends are going without their girlfriends/wives, do you really think they want me there?” “Yeah, they don’t mind” “Why don’t you go by yourself this time and hang out with just the boys, believe me, if its a boy’s night out they don’t want me there”)

  17. Roosh said,

    I only drink the finest of gins.

  18. Jo said,

    Had to chime in again to say thanks Jess and INPY. I’m all blushing and stuff.

  19. Erica said,

    Alas, my peeptoe stillettos could only be worn with a BoSox hat but if you’re ok with that I’m ok with that πŸ™‚

  20. Virgle Kent said,

    ” perform sex acts they don’t really want to do”

    wow, slow your roll son. The” reverse spider monkey” is a must do. If a girl can’t handle doing a hand stand then she can walk. I couldn’t settle for less damnit!

  21. Arjewtino said,

    I only drink free gin.

  22. Miss B said,

    Charming post, indeed. I definitely think you’re wrong to say that people shouldn’t take relationship advice from you – this was a very well written post and very right on.

    If you know of any men in your neck of the woods who think like you do, but are looking for a change of scenery, send them up to Boston.

    As a born and bred New Englander, there’s no way I’d be caught dead in a Yankees cap (sorry!), but the peep toe pumps? Absolutely :o)

  23. supergirl said,

    Yet again – just another reason why I love you so much. . . .miss you

  24. J said,

    Wanna see armed conflict? Take me to a Yankees game… or a Tori Amos concert for that matter.

  25. julie said,

    You had me at “shots at the Yankees bar”.

    This post is awesome.

    God I hate Tori Amos.


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